1. Sleeper Agent website

Scott Gardner and Tony Smith of Sleeper Agent have collaborated on various projects since their early teens.  The following is a short interview with Gardner as well as one with his mother, both conducted via email as followup to research for an article on the evolution of the Bowling Green band which gained national exposure throughout 2011.

A Will Gardner was involved with Ink Parade, I assume this is your brother who also helped Tony paint the practice room wall? Is he still involved in music and/or art?

Scott Gardner: Yep, Will is my only brother. Ink Parade was more of an experiment in making electronic music, from what I understand. It’s perhaps more noteworthy to mention that Will was the singer of Tony and I’s first band, The New Eclectics. After he graduated high school, he attended UK and studied Opera briefly before switching to criminology. Recently he’s been expressing himself creatively by writing stand-up routines that he’ll preform on occasion around town. However, he’s much more focused on his work with in the community via the Kelly Autism center.

Why Saga?

Scott Gardner: In 8th and 9th grade, I actually put a lot of effort into trying to rap. Saga was my rap name, mainly because it played off my initials (SaGa). Whenever I joined Sleeper Agent and needed to come up with a nickname, that old pseudonym was brought up and I decided it was as good as any other name. The saga continues…

Tony has described you at 12 as being dressed in all black and angry. What changed your perspective? Any comment/advice for other teens who may be in a dark place?

Scott Gardner: No clue what changed my perspective, I’m just not one to stay down in the dumps for long. I have a dark side and I’ve struggled with before. I eventually get out of those low moments by seeing the folly in wallowing and finding a way to pick myself up again. Luckily I have a great Mom and great friends who are always there for me.

It would be hard for me to advise any teen going through a similar thing without sounding condescending. Something along the lines of “You don’t have enough life experience for those emotions.” and “Whatever you’re going through right now will be the furthest thing from your mind once you’re out in the real world.”

But, I know that advice wouldn’t go over well. The last thing someone confused and hurt wants is to have those intense emotions diminished or dismissed.

You’ve been in almost every project Tony was in – The New Eclectics, Decade of Experts and Assassins and Downtown Handshake. Any insights or observations you can offer on the evolution of his songwriting and artistic creations in general?

Scott Gardner: I know plenty of people can play music well but it’s much harder to find a competent, talented songwriter like Tony. For this reason, I told myself I always wanted to be involved with his music projects from the first time I played with him in 2003. I am so grateful that I was asked to join Sleeper Agent whenever it became apparent that it would become his main focus and that our relationship will be able to continue on and on and on.

I’ve seen his songwriting refine itself over the years. At first, almost every idea seemed to make it into a song. But, over the years he’s learned how to pick the best parts for the song, making the more focused, cohesive music you hear today.

His songwriting is also very reactionary to itself. I see the easygoing, fun qualities of Interrobang and Celabrasion as a direct response to the somber, attention-demanding qualities of Downtown Handshake’s Revival Revival. He’s very forward looking in this way, as soon as one song or record is done he seems to ask himself “Now how to do I top that with the next one?”

I’ve also seen his songwriting go from a game or hobby to an actual skill. At first, I think he approached songwriting like most people and waited for inspiration to come to him. Now, his inspiration seems to be attached to a switch that’s constantly within reach. He’s the only person I know with this ability.

I understand your first band was in 3rd grade. Can you provide the name of past groups, who was in them, what type music they were & what years they existed (other than the above mentioned)?

Scott Gardner: That thing in 3rd grade was hardly a band. Since neither one of us was competent on an instrument, we’d take turns humming whatever music and singing lyrics on top of it. No idea what we were called.

My first real project, Peanut Shaped Pineapple, was a comedy rap group that my friend Obed Fraser and I did while attending St. Joseph Middle School.

I made some solo rap songs under the name Saga during my freshman year of high school.

My freshman year I also met Tony and started my first band with him, this lead to many more, as you know. They were, in order:

• The New Eclectics – Will Gardner, Aaron Senters, Tony and myself
• The Decade of Experts and Assassins – Chris Palmer, Patrick Duncan, David Stites, Tony, myself and for a few records Aaron Senters, who eventually moved and was replaced by Zach Greer.
• Downtown Handshake – Zach Greer, Tony, myself, and Aaron Clark, who eventually was replaced by Lee Williams.
• And, finally Sleeper Agent.

In 2010, I had a short return to rap music via playing set for Natty Bumpoe, Joey Stratton’s rap project. The rest of the backing band was filled out by Jeremi Simon on bass and Billy Swayze on guitar, with a revolving door of back-up singers.

It might be worth noting that I made my debut with The Colour Orange, Max Scholz’s super cover group, this past December. Although there have been many iterations of his backing band, the most recent line up included myself, Justin Wilson, Zack Lindsey, and Neal Clayton. It’s a great chance for Justin, Zach, and I to get to do something different whenever Sleeper and Mona are both home. This “band” usually only does one local show a year, but we’re going to try to line up a second show of 2012 this summer since we all have some downtime around BG.

Also, studying music academically obviously lead to me playing with various Jazz Bands, concert bands, orchestras, etc. But that list is far too long to document or even remember.

What attracted you to fencing? Are you a swashbuckler at heart?

Scott Gardner: I’ve never really considered myself a swashbuckler, but I could see the term fitting, I can be rather rowdy and noisy at times. I was never the athletic type, organized sports never suited me well. So, maybe the fact that fencing is based on individual’s performance made it more my speed. Plus, what 8 year-old boy wouldn’t want to play with swords?

You are one of the most technically trained of the band. How do you think that has influenced the band/its music?

Scott Gardner: Well, whenever I was drumming, this technical training influenced the rhythmic vocabulary and the drum parts of whatever band I was in. I’d always try to find some way to tastefully incorporate the newest technique or style under my belt.

As far as Sleeper Agent is concerned, I’m still figuring out the influence my technical background has. It certainly made it possible and easier for me to make the switch from drum set to piano. If it wasn’t for the background in piano and music theory I got from majoring in music at Western, I wouldn’t have been able to switch roles so quickly, if at all.

However, I consider most of the keys parts on Celabrasion to be afterthoughts. With a few exceptions, they were all overdubs added to complete songs that the rest of the band had already worked out. Icing on the cake, if you will. I attribute this mainly to how fast the songwriting and recording process went. So for the record that’s out, my background had an influence on my own parts but not what the rest of the guys were doing.

Now that we have time to really focus on our next batch of material and that I’m involved in the writing process from the get-go, I’m seeing new ways my technical training comes into play every day. A lot of this comes from my knowledge of music theory. For example, if someone’s stuck on a chord or if Tony wants to write a harmony part for a vocal melody, my theory knowledge kicks in and I can quickly figure out the missing chord or play some harmony options with the melody on piano. We all help each other out though.

It’s really difficult to articulate exactly the influence my technical background does or doesn’t have. Wish I had a better answer for you, but all my experiences and background kind of blur into the musician I am today.

The Governor’s School for Arts is a very prestigious honor. Can you share a bit about that experience and how it contributed to your artistic development?

Scott Gardner: I’m very proud to be a GSA alumnus, however…

For my whole GSA experience, I was tormented by one of my assignments: a duet for four-mallet marimba and clarinet. For this to make sense, you need to know that I didn’t join school band until my junior year of high school, after another drummer from BGHS heard me play with Decade and urged me to. Joining band exposed me to the new world of orchestral percussion, instruments like xylophone, marimba, and timpani.

I jumped right into to learning these instruments; in fact half of my GSA audition was a marimba solo (the other half was a drum set solo). So I was able to make some progress with the instrument fairly quickly. However, I had never been asked to perform anything written for four mallets before attending GSA. So my learning that challenging duet was also me simultaneously learning a brand new technique. In order to pull it off, I had to lock myself in a practice room for hours upon hours (8+ on that one piece on days where my schedule allowed it!) This definitely prepared me for the type of practice I’d have to do studying music in college, But it also made me question myself quite a bit.

About a week in, I even had a breakdown where I called my mom crying, and told her I wasn’t sure if I could pull it off, if I’d ever be good enough, or if I was always going to be one step behind all these people who had more experience in band programs. Recalling it, I feel like I was over dramatic but I was young and being challenged by music in brand new ways. She told me she knew I could, giving me the support I needed to get my ass back in the practice room.

I don’t want to make it sound like the experience was a negative one, it was actually really positive. But not because it was all fun and games, but rather because of the musical knowledge I gained from it and self-knowledge that I could push through and overcome any obstacle music would throw my way.

There were moments when the four-mallet duet from hell slipped my mind and I really enjoyed myself. Practically every night I received a fresh dose of inspiration from the musical acts, plays, dance recitals, poetry readings, etc, etc that were performed for the students. Also, this gave me my first experience playing jazz, another passion I hope to return to at some point. It was tough but the whole experience made me realize I had the work ethic necessary to major in music in college.

You left school to tour on the home stretch of your college degree is that something you plan to complete in the future? How much do you think your formal education in music influenced your bands?

Scott Gardner: I’m actually kind of relieved I wasn’t able to finish school. I’ve always been a good student, but my grades fell drastically during my last few semesters at Western. My best excuse is that I was already focusing most of my time and effort on my rock and roll dreams. Downtown Handshake had interest and opportunities coming out of Nashville, and Natty Bumpoe was gigging quite a bit too. I had already made my choice before Sleeper Agent touring was even a thought.

If the opportunity arose, I wouldn’t be opposed to finishing my degree but I’m hoping to be too busy to do so for a long time. I would only want to return if I could really dedicate myself to it, as I already know how stressful and counter productive it is to try to be a music major when your effort, time, and thoughts aren’t in it.

I learned a lot from my time as a music major. The most valuable lessons came from the experiences of performing with so many different ensembles on campus. But even the theoretical knowledge gleaned has proved itself so useful as well. Kind of already discussed this with your question on technical training, since I consider most of that training to come from my pursuing music academically.

With DTHS, I see an infinite amount of ways my experiences playing drumset in jazz bands and world music ensembles affect how I approached the kit with a rock band.

I also think the exposure to other types of music has proved itself to be extremely valuable. Whenever I write or improvise behind any instrument, I just try to take whatever’s in my head and put it in my hands. I have no idea where those thoughts originate, because all of my experiences blur together to form my musical identity today. When I’m hearing a synth line, I have no idea how having played timpani in an orchestra helped in it getting there, but I know that somehow it did…. Hmmm, I hope that makes sense.

Drumming seemed to be primary with you until Sleeper Agent. What other instruments do you play? Do you hope to have future side projects drumming?

Scott Gardner: I also play guitar, but mainly in a rhythmic style (although I do hope to learn lead soon). I really enjoy writing songs and learning covers on guitar.

I touched on this earlier but pursing music academically turned me from a drummer into a percussionist. Although drum set is and always will be my forte, I can play and have studied in depth techniques for vibraphone, timpani, marimba, steel drums, marching and orchestral snare (two completely different styles of playing), and any other percussion you could name.

I’m starting to see the “oneness” of music. Playing a Neutral Milk Hotel song on guitar is the same thing to me as playing drum set with a jazz band, which is the same thing as playing keys with Sleeper Agent, which is the same thing as playing a four-mallet marimba solo with a clarinet. As long as I don’t need a special ambature to play the instrument, bring it on. The only difference to me is the size of the target I’m hitting.

Also, as far as we’re concerned Downtown Handshake isn’t dead, but rather hibernating in an indefinite hiatus status – although I’m not sure if we’d change the name or not whenever we return to it once the time is right. I’d also be open to play drums in other projects, its just a matter of having the time at the moment.

I also hope that one day the songs I write on my own will get the chance to see the light of day.

You were in Student Government and even class president. Have those experiences helped with the business and marketing side of music? Do you have any political aspirations?

Scott Gardner: It’s still silly for me to think that I was my class president. I’m sloppy and unorganized, two bad qualities for a leadership role like that, but somehow all my projects came together well, although usually serendipitously at the last minute.

I think the main thing I gained out of it was practice in sensing and relieving tension within a group; this certainly comes into handy with many aspects of being in a band. Besides that I have difficulty seeing the ways it has helped, but I’m sure it has. And no, that one year as class president was enough to quell any interest I might have had in politics.

You have a larger than life personality and your mom says they call you the “hype man”, so you were a natural pick for the cheerleader prank. Are you more active with pumping up the audience or also the behind the scenes marketing, social networking etc?

Scott Gardner: We all get really hype on stage, so to be considered the “hype man” of a band full of them is an honor. It’s always been really natural for me to move a lot when I play. in fact, the one criticism I got from my professors at WKU time and time again was that my “excess body movement distracted from my performance.” I get it with classical music but I think it works to my advantage with a rock band.

I think we’re all pretty active with pumping up the audience though, and I know that we feed each other on. We try to make every show the most energetic one possible to hopefully liberate the crowd to be excited too, and to give them a memorable image and experience. So far it seems to be effective in doing both of those things and making people ask themselves and each other “What did I just witness? Who was that band?” Whether we play for 20 or 2000 people, we’ll make an impression, without a doubt.

I’m not terribly active with the social networking, as I can feel anxious trying to pick out the right words to say. I do run the band’s Instagram account though. I guess it’s easier for me to share the sights of our experience than to try to sum them up into words.

Part of me longs to create a shared experience for others. This is the part of me that’s active when I’m dancing around on stage. But this is kind of like a release I need to have, an energy that builds up inside of me if I don’t get to express it. But the more static, personal side of me is actually kind of quiet, reserved, and private. I think this side of my personality is what’s active during the very personal act of practice. So, I think those two almost contradictory sides of my personality attracted me to music, as one comes in handy during the performance aspect and the other during the practice aspect.

How much do you enjoy and participate in the songwriting process? Are there particular aspects of a song aside from what you will play that you give more attention to?

Scott Gardner: I really enjoy being involved in the songwriting process. When I was drumming I was only really able to contribute to the rhythmic and structural aspects of a song. Already touched on my participation with Sleeper Agent a little bit…

With Celabrasion, most of the songs had their core parts by the time I got involved. The only real contribution on my behalf was the chorus to “All Wave and No Goodbye” but that was still entirely Tony’s doing, as it came from a song I wrote and recorded a few years earlier, but was only ever played for my close friends. He was working on a new song and kept hearing it go to the chorus from my old song, so we decided to blend the two.

Now I’m getting to be involved in the songwriting process in brand new ways. Although these ways are still evolving.

In general, Tony will present a song to us with at least a clear idea of a verse progression and chorus progression. At first I focus solely on the chord changes, generally doubling Tony’s guitar part, because at this point we’re focused solely on figuring out the song’s structure and harmonic center. If there’s any part of the song that’s missing, we’ll just jam within the key until someone does something that catches our ear – allowing Josh, Lee, and I to contribute to the actual chord changes of the song too. During this process I’ll also start to hear a few melody lines in my head. Once the structure is down, I put those melodies in my hands and figure out where they belong.

I’m able to aid in songwriting by another musical interest of mine; recording music. One day I would like the chance to produce records, and for now I’m getting practice in producing and engineering by demoing the new Sleeper Agent material. Once we have the basics of the song recorded and its my turn to lay down keys, I get the benefit of being able to play over the rest of the band and try out as many different ideas and tones as necessary until I find the winning combination. Getting to hear things back immediately is useful for everyone though, I’m glad we’re utilizing it as a songwriting tool for the next record.

We’ve only just begun to work on the next batch of material, and I already have that much to say about my participation in the song writing. I wouldn’t be surprised if I had much more and maybe even much different things to say about the process once the record is complete. But that’s how things have been going so far.

Assuming you’re one of the band horror fans and given your interest in all things percussion & synth, are you a Goblin fan?

Scott Gardner: I do enjoy a good horror flick but rarely think to watch a movie or television. Most of what I’ve seen has been under others urging. So if that’s a film, I hate to say I missed it.

If for whatever reason, you’re talking about the Tyler the Creator record… I dig it, but prefer the solo work of his OFWKTA bandmates Domo Genesis and Frank Ocean.

[Goblin is a band which is primarily known as the go to band for Italian horror master Dario Argento’s films.]

What is up with a hype man & horror fan not liking clowns?

Scott Gardner: John Wayne Gacy ruined all the fun. I went to clown camp once as a child, it was torture. Also my first girlfriend had a creepy family portrait in her house where everyone in full clown get-up. Not into it.

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Marilyn Gardner, Scott Gardners’s mother, also shared some insights regarding his early musical development.

Were there signs growing up that your son would choose a career in rock n roll and have the dedication to make it happen? Is there another path you were expecting him to take before Sleeper Agent took off?

Marilyn Gardner: As a fifth-grader, Scott announced what he was going to be when he grew up: A rock and roll star, and when he got old (about 30!), a priest. Only one part of his declaration surprised me, given his love of music and performing. He started his first official band in the third grade, and has, for the most part, been in one ever since.

His junior year of high school, Scott was one of four percussionists in the state to get selected for the Governor’s School of the Arts. That experience was a turning point in his development as a musician, and was the first time I thought music might be more than an avocation in Scott’s life.

The band says that all the parents are very supportive, in what ways have you tried to nurture their talent and facilitate their efforts towards a career in music?

Marilyn Gardner: Growing up, I insisted my children take music lessons. When Scott wanted to stop taking piano when he was 10, I made him chose another instrument. (He chose the triangle; we negotiated and settled on drum lessons). Scott’s talent, though, has been nurtured by others, rather than me. He’s had wonderful instructors and has attended schools that valued music education.

Scott was in his senior year as percussion performance major at WKU when it looked like Sleeper/Agent might get signed and go on tour. As much as I wanted him to finish his degree, this was an opportunity of a lifetime and was fully supportive of him pursuing his dream.

The rest has mainly been me just being a mom. When they’re on the road, I nag them to eat right, get more sleep, wear their seatbelts, and write thank you notes. I do their laundry sometimes. I stalk them on Facebook and Twitter to make sure they’ve made it to their next venue safely. When they’re home, I get to enjoy hearing them practice – as do my very wonderful and supportive neighbors, many of whom have heard every iteration of the band since 2002!

Was there a specific moment when it hit you that Sleeper Agent was moving to the next level and becoming a viable career choice?

Marilyn Gardner: It still hasn’t hit me. When I watch them on stage, I still see them as the same little kids who performed their hearts out at music recitals and school programs.

Feel free to share any comments you may have about Sleeper Agent or your son/daughter related to this band or artistic endeavors or personality in general.

Marilyn Gardner: I am enormously proud of them all, beyond their musical successes. I’m grateful to all of the people who’ve supported them and given them these wonderful opportunities. But mostly, I feel blessed to watch them live their dreams.

 I don’t know if you’ve seen them perform or not, but Scott’s definitely the nut, or “hype man” is what I think they call him.  He’s been that way all of his life – from in Kindergarten when he insisted he have a bloody stump for a tail when playing one of the three blind mice, to being the senior class president (2007) at BGHS.   

I also REALLY think that the BG environment was crucial in his development of a musician, as well as the band’s success.

Could you elaborate a bit on how the BG environment was particularly beneficial?

Marilyn Gardner: I think I mentioned that Scott has always attended schools that valued music education.  When Scott attended BGHS, about 10% of the school census was in band.  Scott didn’t start the band program until his junior year, but Kevin Briley was instrumental in encouraging his musical development. For example, when auditioning for a percussion slot at the Governor’s School of the Arts, students have to play a variety of percussion instruments, including mallet instruments (e.g., marimba and xylophone).  Before starting band his junior year, Scott had only played the drum set.  Kevin Briley, along with Scott’s private percussion teacher (Chris Osborne, who was a WKU student at the time) helped Scott get to where he was competitive.  Royal Music was even involved in finding me a practice xylophone for home; I fell asleep nightly to the tinkling of Scott practicing (I miss that!).  Webb and the owner (I’m blanking on his name right now) were extremely supportive and good to Scott, and were extremely generous to us over the years (drums are NOT a cheap instrument to play!).

As I mentioned also, Governor’s School of the Arts was really a turning point for Scott.  He became a true musician that summer, and I think it really showed. In addition to being offered full academic scholarships (Scott was National Merit Commended), he was also offered several music scholarships. I think he chose to go to WKU because he didn’t want to leave the new drum set he got for high school graduation (again, thanks to Royal Music) behind.

In the band’s early days, there were several venues that around town that allowed them to play, despite the crowd being mainly young teens who didn’t have much money to spend and who, at times, could get a little rowdy.  As their road crew, I got to watch them develop relationships with other local bands who were a few years older than them, including Cage the Elephant who, of course, were instrumental in bringing Sleeper/Agent into the limelight.  One of the things that always struck me about all of the young musicians they played with in those days (and now) is, for the most, they are a tight-knit group  who genuinely root for one another.  They often jammed with one another, formed side-projects, and always went to one another’s shows.   They still do. 

Older musicians in town were also really supportive.  Webb, as I mentioned, was always really encouraging to Scott, as were people like Steve Wilson and Jim DeCesare.  (Skip Bond let the boys come up and play a song at one of their performances, and Steve remarked to Jim, “I didn’t know your drum could play like that!”).   Lynn O’Keefe at Gallery 916 used to sell their CDs back before they were signed, as did Great Escape.  

I really believe in the proverb that it takes a village to raise a child, and I think all of these things/people (and others) were an important part of the village that raised the band.