In 1999, I stumbled across a CD by Ray Wylie Hubbard called “Crusades Of The Restless Knights.” I was disgruntled and unhappy with the direction of country music, so I was searching for something different. I flipped the CD over and saw the song titles: “Conversation With The Devil.” “The River Runs Red.” “Airplane Fell Down In Dixie.” This had different written all over it like flashing neon lights. Mainstream country was “CLICHES SOLD HERE” and this was “LIVE NUDE GIRLS.” Naturally, I couldn’t get the money out of my pocket fast enough.

The music burst out of my car’s CD player like a thousand bulls on parade. Great lyrics (“even crows act like eagles when they find a dying snake”) were combined with a maelstrom of folk, country, gospel, blues and rock ‘n’ roll. This was the kaleidoscope I was looking for. Dante and Hank Williams. Jesus, Buddha, cocaine and a dead woman by the river. A thinking man’s country music. The barbed-wire and roses of real life.

I searched out the rest of Hubbard’s records like a junkie chasing the dragon. He’s released 15 CDs and not once have I been disappointed. His latest, “The Grifter’s Hymnal,” is an Americana tour-de-force. From the primal blues of “Coricidin Bottle” to the inspirational gospel of “Ask God,” it is a thing of solitary beauty. The songs will leave you with dirt under your fingernails and love in your heart.

Hubbard’s first brush with fame was as the writer of “Up Against The Wall, Redneck Mother,” (originally recorded by Jerry Jeff Walker in 1973) but his catalog is miles deep with sheer brilliance. Besides, how many songwriters can quote Rainer Maria Rilke and Mississippi Fred McDowell and never blink an eye?

I had the opportunity to speak with Hubbard on Aug. 7. As you could imagine, he was every bit the Texas gentleman, self-deprecating and charming. He’ll be at The Warehouse At Mt. Victor Sept. 7. Don’t miss him.

Q: You were here (at The Warehouse At Mt. Victor) in May, weren’t you?

A: Yeah, it was a great gig. I had a great time.

Q: Well, we always enjoy having you. I think you’re coming back in September, if memory serves. I’m looking forward to the gig.

A: It should be fun. Like I say, we had a great time the last time I was there.

Q: I’ve been listening to “The Grifter’s Hymnal” this morning, three or four times, and I have to tell you this may be the best thing you’ve done.

A: Well, thank you very much. It just all came together with the songs and the band and the guys that played on it and engineering and all that stuff. It just all came together. So I had a lot of help, even though it’s just my name on the record. A lot of people really came together for it, so I’m really, really, really proud of it. It turned out well, thank you.

Q: You’re welcome. It sounds, to me, like a country record, but it’s got some ’60s-era rock and roll coming through it. Am I wrong?

A: No, you’re not. We went into it with the attitude “let’s make a record that we really like the way they sound.” Nowadays everything is so auto-tuned, you know. So we went back and we listened to early Buffalo Springfield and Neil Young and early Stones, The Beatles … because those were real guys really playing. You’re exactly right. We went in with that attitude that we make a record that sonically sounds as good as those records. So when we mixed it, we left off the lip smacks, but we left the coughs and the … pedal squeaks and all that stuff.

Q: It just sounds raggedy and disheveled and that’s beautiful.

A: Yeah, well thank you very much. Like I said, the records I really, really love were real guys really playing. Like some of those old – you know, Chuck Berry and even The Beatles – the guitar would kind of be out of tune, but so what? We kept that attitude. In fact, when we recorded it, we didn’t use any pedals. It was guitar directly into an amplifier. We didn’t use any choruses or delay or anything. Let’s honor those guys by playing it without putting a bunch of other stuff on it. So yeah, you’re exactly right.

Q: Did I read correctly that you recorded part of it in a Methodist church?

A: Yeah, we started off recording … there’s an old church built in 1888 in LaGrange, Texas. And we moved it to Roundtop, and so it desanctified, so they let us in there to make some rock.

Q: Did you get the band together and record it live or was there a lot of overdubbing and things like that? Because it sounds like you all gathered around a microphone and did it that way.

A: It was all done pretty live. We did a little bit (of overdubbing), not very much. I think we did “South Of The River,” we redid a guitar part and a bass part on that. But everything else was pretty much live. Some of them like “Red Badge Of Courage” and “Ask God,” we just turned on the machine and just … did it, you know? We just let it kind of happen.

Q: Well, that’s the way a lot of the greatest music was recorded, from early bluegrass to Iggy And The Stooges … you gather around a microphone and there it is. Where it falls is where it lays.

A: You’re exactly right. Like I say, it’s just real guys playing, you know what I mean? This is the way they played … Some of my favorite records are like that. Old Slim Harpo … they just played ’em, you know? We keep that vibe.

Q: I’m noticing that your albums seem to get more and more raw as the time goes on.

A: Yeah, in fact my friend Gurf Morlix said I’d probably cut a couple of records here in the future that’s just gonna be me groaning and beating on a hollow log and moans.

Q: I’d buy that. You need to do it.

A: He said I’ve kind of … de-evolutionized. (laughs)

Q: I have to ask you how you got Ringo (Starr) on your new record.

A: What happened was, when “Snake Farm” came out, we were playing out in Santa Monica and a fella by the name of Brent Carpenter, who does all Ringo’s videos. He bought “Snake Farm” and he burned a copy for Ringo. He didn’t even buy him a copy, he just burned him a copy. “There’s this guy in Texas I think you might like.” And Ringo liked the record. So the next time we were out in L.A., he called me and said “We’re playing, come on out.” So we went out there with Rick Richards, my drummer, and we met Ringo. He’s such a musician. He’s a Beatle and a drummer and all that, but in his heart, he’s a musician. That’s why he still does it. He doesn’t have to do that, he doesn’t have to do the All-Star thing, but he just loves playing, loves entertaining, loves recording, and all that stuff. So we were just talking and he said, “I really like your songwriting,” and I said, “I really like yours.” He said, “Nobody really thinks of me as a songwriter. You know, I’m a Beatle and everything.” I said, “Yeah, this album called ‘Beaucoups Of Blues’ in the ’70s, there was a bonus track on there called ‘Coochy Coochy’ and it’s just one chord. I may record it.” He said, “I’d like to hear that.” So we were set up at the church and I had a Resonator .. and Rick had a kick drum and a bird-feeder and a rock or something … and we recorded it and we sent it to Ringo. “Hey, here it is,” you know? And he called us and said, “I love it, the drums are really good. I don’t have to play drums on it. Let me sing on it and play some shakers.” So we said, “Sure.” It was really cool because he doubled his vocals like The Beatles did back then. We weren’t there when he did it, that was overdubbed. We sent it to him and he sent it back and … I have a Beatle on my record.

Q: You know, “Beaucoups of Blues” is a great record. That’s one of the best Beatle solo records.

A: It is, because he had such great players on there. I mean, Harold “Pig” Robbins and all those guys. Just a great record. It was just a Nashville A-team and they played their asses off and it’s a fun record.

Q: You can tell Ringo really loves country music, too.

A: Well, he tells this story … we kind of bonded on Lightnin’ Hopkins. When he was in Liverpool, all these American sailors would come there and that’s how he got records. He was 16 or 17, he heard a Lightnin’ Hopkins record and he knew Lightnin’ Hopkins was in Houston, so he and his buddy were going to go to Houston and work in the oil refineries so they could meet Lightnin’ Hopkins. They went to get a Visa and he said, “It’s just too much paperwork for a 17-year-old” … to figure out how to get to America. So he said, “Ah, I’ll play drums.” He’s very knowledgeable about American music and he was really cool. It was a real honor. I got him and also got another rock ’n’ roll guy, Ian McLagan from The Small Faces. So I got two English rock guys plus these really cool Austin players, so it felt really good doing the record.

Q: This might be a touchy subject for you, but the Cowboy Twinkies record got re-released last year. I know you’re not a fan of it …

A: I don’t know… Judy (Hubbard’s wife) told me about it, but I don’t know what happened with it. We were hoping somebody would go back and remix that, because after they put girl singers and steel guitars on everything … but I haven’t listened to it in years.

Q: Did they do the same thing to that they did to Willie Nelson? Chet Atkins put all the strings and the background singers on it …

A: Yeah, I started off in that time, that whole progressive country thing in Austin with Willie and Jerry Jeff (Walker) and Michael (Martin) Murphey and I was kind of a folk rock guy … and we cut the record and the record label said country radio won’t play this, so that’s when they put steel on it, girl singers. I like steel guitar and girl singers, but not on every track. It was heartbreaking at the time. I felt like it could have been so much better. It wasn’t who we were at the time. (Now) I have the freedom to do whatever I want to do. Radio is not going to play this and I never have written for that. I just never know where these songs are going to come from, you know? I just throw ’em out there.

Q: That gives you the freedom to do what’s in your heart.

A: Well, that’s the thing. The writers that I really like, they have that feel. They can write without fear, just whatever they want. This whole album, I got songs on there that are gospel, “Ask God” and all that stuff, and also got songs about strippers and Les Pauls. So any door that opens, I can go in it. (laughs)

Q: “Ask God” is probably my favorite track on there. What is it, three or four lines? Real simple. It sounds to me like you were raised on gospel music.

A: Yeah, I grew up in southeast Oklahoma. One grandma was Southern Baptist and the other one was Church of Christ. And the music was the thing … I didn’t understand what was going on, but the music was just incredibly powerful. As a kid, 4 or 5 years old, I had no idea. But that still shows up. I’m at that age now where I prefer spiritual awakening to religious conversion. I’m not really a full-tilt Bible-thumpin’ church goer, but I try to live on certain spiritual principles that work in my life.

Q: Well, listening to your records, I can tell there’s something spiritual going on, but at the same time, I hear a voice that knows how to sin really good … that understands real life. It’s not an either/or. It’s both.

A: Well, thank you. You’re right. It’s the … freedom to write without fear. I can just write and not worry about whether it’s going to get played by the radio or whether Tim McGraw is going to cover it. I don’t have to worry about that. I just write these songs and feel grateful, very fortunate that I get to put ’em out there, play clubs, and … come to Bowling Green and have a good time.

Q: Tell me about your bond with Stevie Ray Vaughan.

A: Yeah, I went to Adamson High School and Stevie Ray went to Kimball. I was in a folk band called The Coachmen. Stevie Ray was in a rock band called The Chessmen. The newspaper was always getting us mixed up. They’d show a picture of my band and say “The Chessmen.” So Stevie and I, we’d known each other, we would always kid about that. I’d known Stevie back when we were drinking and drugging really hard. We stayed up a couple of nights, all night … and then he got sober. And I was having a really rough time after my Dad died. And he came and talked to me and … he just kept me whole. So I could keep on going. I think of him every day because he took the time to talk to me and get me on the right track.

Q: So is it correct to say he helped you get it in gear? That little extra kick?

A: Yeah, he really did. He pointed me in the right direction. I always had this feeling that if I got clean and sober, I would turn into a square. (laughs)

Q: Boy, were you wrong.

A: And he was the first cat I saw that still had an edge and was playing great. And so he was very inspirational.

Q: Well, I know you’ve talked about “Redneck Mother” a billion times, but I do have an observation about it. I’ve always lumped it in with songs like “Born In The U.S.A.,” where people are singing along and they think they know what it means, but they really don’t know what it means. It doesn’t mean what they think it does. Is there a level of irony that people miss with that song?

A: (laughing) Oh, I don’t care anymore. I don’t care if they get it or not. No, that’s a great question. You know, it did start off as kind of an answer to “Okie From Muskogee” and “Fightin’ Side Of Me” and there was the hippies. It’s the same sort of satire, irony, tongue-in-cheek kind of thing. Jerry Jeff did it and all of a sudden … it crossed over to where the rednecks and their mothers were singing along with it. (laughs) So it’s beyond me. I mean, it’s still a mystery to me. I tried to figure it out … I just sing it and have fun with it. I still do it. It’s good in the arsenal. It’s not like it’s “Feelings.” If I’d written “Feelings” and had to sing that every night, I’d have to kick myself pretty hard.

Q: Do you have a favorite record that you’ve done?

A: Yeah, it kind of comes out to the last one I’ve done, you know? “Loco Gringo’s Lament” was my first real record, I felt like. So each one at the time has meant a great deal to me, but I guess probably “The Grifter’s Hymnal” is the one now that I really like. That’s the one.

Q: What do you listen to for pure enjoyment? Driving from gig to gig, you put something on … what do you listen to?

A: Well, I just picked up that Chris Robinson Brotherhood record. I really love that. And of course, I listen to Lightnin’ Hopkins and R.L. Burnside, North Mississippi Allstars, guys like that. I don’t listen to the mainstream stuff. I don’t listen to mainstream country at all. The thing is, I’ve seen Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings and Ernest Tubb, so I’ve seen the best. I compare all the guys nowadays to what I’ve seen and they don’t match up. I don’t listen to mainstream. I have no idea who’s doing what. I get into a bunch of cool bands during Austin, you know? The Dirty River Boys, a band called The Trishas. The music I like is usually music by friends of mine or people I know, like Hayes Carll or James McMurtry, guys like that. I know those guys and I love their music more than anything else.

Q: There’s a lot of great musicians from Texas. Seriously, what’s the deal with that?

A: Yeah, there’s some goobers down there, too. (laughs) I won’t give any names.

Q: I understand you wrote the screenplay for “The Last Rites Of Ransom Pride.” What happened with that?

A: Yeah, I wrote that. I was doing the score, and they ran out of money and some other people put up some money. They said, “Our people are going to edit it and score it” and they took it and I didn’t like what they were doing with it, so I had to walk away from it. The editing and the score, they took some of my songs and took scissors to ’em and chopped it up and put TV-cops-being-chased music on it, so … it was heartbreaking when they did it, because when I had originally scored it, it was dark and weird. Like I say, it is what it is. They brought in another editor and another guy to score it and they tried to make it something it wasn’t and screwed it up, I think.

Q: I’ve never seen the movie. I didn’t even know it came out, honestly.

A: Yeah, it’s just as well. The dialogue is pretty good. It’s really cool to hear Kris Kristofferson or Lizzy Caplan say some of these lines. If you can get past the editing and what they did to my score, then the dialogue is there. I’m proud of the dialogue.

Q: What’s on docket for you now? Just touring?

A: Well, let’s see, we’ve got about another week here and then we head back to Texas for a while. And we’ll just be around there. I’m actually writing my memoirs.

Q: Is your son playing guitar with you now?

A: He is, he’s 19. He’s full time, but he’s getting ready to go back to school so … it depends on the gig, you know? I get the gig, then get a band. I think in Bowling Green, Rick Richards and I came up there last time. Of course, Rick’s out with Joe Walsh now, so I never know if I’m gonna be solo or duo or trio or quartet. It just kind of depends on financially, we take a band or if it’s just me and a guitar. Hopefully, I have the capacity to entertain either way.

Q: Thank you so much for your time today. It’s an honor and a pleasure to get to speak with you. I’ve been a fan for years. God bless you.

A: Well, thank you very much. I tell you what, I’m looking forward to it and we’ll see you when we get to Bowling Green.

Q: I’ll be there.

And you should be there, too. Don’t miss this chance to see one of the world’s finest singer-songwriters at the peak of his powers. While you’re at it, pick up a copy of “The Grifter’s Hymnal.” It’s one of this year’s best records. With any luck, you can get it autographed.

About the author:  Michael Franklin is the Media & Reserves Specialist at WKU Library’s Visual & Performing Arts Library. Michael is also a professional musician and sound engineer.