Paul Thorn: What the Hell is Goin' On?

Paul Thorn is Tupelo, Mississippi’s very own Renaissance man.  He’s released 10 CDs of Americana, each one chock full of great material. Countless artists have recorded his songs (“Mission Temple Fireworks Stand,” “Burn Down The Trailer Park”). His music deals in the sacred and the profane, the light and the dark. Pimps and preachers. He’s opened shows for everyone – Jeff Beck to Sting, John Prine to Huey Lewis. He’s a painter, a former boxer, a songwriter’s songwriter, and one hell of a nice guy.   

Talking to Paul Thorn is like riding on a train. Pulling out of the station, it goes fairly slow. It picks up speed and before you know it, you’re Slim Pickens riding on a neutron bomb. He careens from music and philosophy to “American Idol,” religion and McDonald’s. He’s blunt, down-to-earth, and honest to a fault.  

He’s currently on tour promoting his latest CD, “What The Hell Is Goin’ On?” and will appear at The Warehouse At Mt. Victor on Oct. 17. Tickets are available at www.thewarehouseatmtvictor.com or call 270-904-6677. Get them now before they’re all gone.

I had the opportunity to speak with him on Aug. 29. Sit back and enjoy the Paul Thorn train of thought. It’s well worth the ticket and quite the ride.     

Michael: Tell me about “What The Hell Is Goin’ On?” Are these favorite tunes written by other people?

Paul: Yeah, this is my 10th album and all of my albums except this one I wrote all the songs. So I wanted to do something fun and do some songs I liked by other writers and kind of tip my hat to ’em, you know.  

Michael: I noticed you’ve got on an Elvin Bishop shirt on the back of the CD. Are you a big Elvin Bishop fan?

Paul: Elvin wrote the title cut “What The Hell Is Goin’ On?” and he actually played guitar on that track.

Michael: I have to thank you for one thing, though. You did NOT do “Fooled Around and Fell In Love.” So thank you for that.

Paul: I didn’t want to do songs people were familiar with. I wanted to songs that were pretty much unheard.  

Michael: “Snake Farm” (Ray Wylie Hubbard) being another one. Is Ray on that?

Paul: No, he doesn’t play on that.  

Michael: I talked to him a few weeks ago. He’s a really nice guy.

Paul: Yes, he is. He’s a great songwriter. I love that song and that’s why I recorded it.  

Michael: I understand you’re from a pretty religious household. Secular music wasn’t allowed when you were growing up?

Paul: Not really. No, we were told the typical stuff that … uninformed people get told. You know, that KISS meant “Kings In Satan’s Service” or we were told the song “A Horse With No Name” had to do with the antichrist. Just laughable looking back now, but when you’re young you believe what you’re told.  

Michael: Rebellion is a strong motivator. If they hadn’t been so tight with the no secular music, do you think you would have become the musician you are now?

Paul: You know, man, I don’t know the answer to that other than to say it’s a natural progression for kids to have falling outs with their parents and leave. That’s what they call pushing you out of the nest. I just think like any other kid, I just wanted to live my own life, you know? It becomes uncomfortable when you’re living different ways and you’re living with your parents and that’s why it’s important to move away when you get a certain age.  

Michael: I understand Elton John’s “Greatest Hits” holds a special place in your heart.

Paul: Uh-huh. Yep.

Michael: That’s a good one. You had good taste as a child. His piano playing is really gospel-based and a lot of your music being the same.  

Paul: Elton John is one of the greatest of all time.

Michael: Oh, absolutely. I agree. I assume you were raised on gospel music so it’s to the bone with you.

Paul: Growing up, I went to two different kind of churches – the kind the black people attended and the kind where the white people attended. The music was really great, but the white people sang country gospel and the black people sang R&B gospel.

Michael: Was that Penecostal?

Paul: Yeah.

Michael: So I understand you were a professional fighter at one time.

Paul: Yeah, in the late ’80s I was the No. 9 ranked middleweight in the United States. The fight I’m most known for is actually the fight I lost. In 1988 I fought on national television against Roberto Duran. I lost the fight but I gave a good account of myself. He cut me early in the fight and by the sixth round the cut got so bad they had to stop it. But you know, I got some punches in. I had three more fights after I lost to Duran and I won ’em all. But I also realized that even though I was pretty good, I wasn’t good enough to be a world champion, so I decided I would get out before I got hurt.

Michael: So there’s the point where you just said, “Okay, music’s for me. Not fighting.”

Paul: Yeah, that’s what I was just saying. I had three fights after Duran and I won ’em all, but I realized I couldn’t win at the very top level. There’s a difference at being good and being great at anything. I was good but I wasn’t great and you have to be great to become a champion.

Michael: Well, I just watched a video of you online talking about what happened when a guy rushed the stage – a drunk guy singing Elvis, and you cold-cocked him.

Paul: Oh … yeah, you’re supposed to have security that takes care of drunks, but when they don’t …

Michael: You have to take matters into your own hands.

Paul: Well, you know, the stage is my territory and my equipment is up there and a lot of things could get broke. Somebody’ll come up there and I’ll ask ’em to get off the stage and if they’re not willing, I have to make them willing, you know? I have to do whatever I have to do to get them off the stage and that (includes) a punch in the face.  

Michael: What do you listen to for pure enjoyment? Let’s say you’re going from gig to gig – what do you put in the CD player or on the iPod?

Paul: Lately I’ve been listening to a ’70s group called Free. Have you heard of them?

Michael: Oh yeah. Paul Rodgers’ first group.

Paul: Yeah, I’ve been listening to Paul Rodgers and Free a lot. They were just amazing. Real raw, stripped down … I’ve been listening to that quite a bit here lately.

Michael: You have any guilty pleasures? I’ll go first. Hall & Oates is mine. Can’t help it.

Paul: You know, I don’t call Hall & Oates a guilty pleasure. They were a fantastic group.   

Michael: Highly underrated.

Paul: Awesome. Awesome. Oh my God. Talking about guilty pleasures, I listen to ABBA. I listen to The Carpenters. People might laugh at that, but the bottom line is they had great songs. You can’t argue that. Some people might think they’re cheesy, but their songwriting was at the highest level. When you hear the songs? (singing) “You are the dancing queen …” When you hear that, you wanna keep on listening to it. A lot of stuff that I listen to has no resemblance to what I do myself, you know? Lately, I’ve been listening also to the Sun Sessions by Elvis, early on, where he cut his early music at Sun Studios. That’s some of the best music you’ll ever hear.

Michael: I agree. Absolutely. And it’s raw. Do you have Sirius/XM, by any chance?

Paul: Yeah, I do.

Michael: My wife makes me listen to Classic Rewind 24-7. Of course, that takes me back to high school. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that channel or not.

Paul: Well, I don’t know how old you are.

Michael: I’m 45.

Paul: Yeah, I’m 48, so I can probably relate to all the music you like. You know, sometimes on the XM I’ll turn it on to the ’70s channel. I love ’70s pop and I like ’80s pop, too. (singing) “You dropped the bomb on me, baby” … Kool and The Gang. I love all that stuff.  

Michael: My favorite station is probably Willie’s Roadhouse. Classic country. I like that, too.

Paul: Oh yeah, I’m a big fan of country music. Not what they’re doing now. What they’re doing now is just ridiculous. It’s like for 12-year-old girls. But real country, back in the day, was for adults. The songs were great, but now it’s just elevator music.  

Michael: Which is a pretty good segue into my next question. The first time I was exposed to your songwriting was a Sawyer Brown song. I know you’ve had songs cut by Sawyer Brown, Billy Ray Cyrus, Toby Keith …

Paul: Yeah, I had cuts on all those artists.

Michael: I’m surprised somebody hasn’t latched onto “Tequila Is Good For the Heart.” That’s got hit written all over it.

Paul: Well, the problem is, first of all, the record business is collapsing. It’s going extinct like the dinosaurs. So what’s happening is, you know, I used to get cuts all the time when I put a record out. You know, artists would get my record and record songs off my CD. But that hasn’t happened in a long time and the reason for that is these record companies are scrambling, trying to figure out ways to make a dollar, ’cause they’re losing money. So if you want to get a song recorded by a Sony artist, let’s just say, they’re not gonna record your song unless you give them all the publishing on it. Or you have to write with the artist, and usually it’s some teenage artist who can’t write their way out of a paper sack. And you sit there and write the song for ’em and they get their name on it. It’s all about ownership. Record companies used to look for great songs, but now they simply just look for songs that they own. And that’s why there’s not hardly anything memorable that stands out hardly on the radio anymore.  

Michael: It is a shame …

Paul: It is, yeah. Like I said, country music? It’s almost like the Mickey Mouse Club now. It’s gotten so dumb and so one dimensional. You know, if I hear one more song about what I’m going to do when I get off on Friday and sit on the tailgate and drink a beer, I might shoot my brains out.

Michael: If you don’t mind me asking, since you were raised in a religious household, how did a song like “You Might Be Wrong” go over?

Paul: Well, it went over good to people who had went out … into the broader world. ’Cause when I was a kid, I believed wholeheartedly in what I was taught about the Bible and Jesus and all that. But when I went out into the broader world, I saw that there were other people in other countries who believed sincerely in something they were told as children. And I sort of figured out for myself that what you believe is pretty much determined by your culture, because very few people do any research to find out what they believe is true or not. The thing is, if they go buy a new house, they’ll get it inspected. They won’t listen to what you say – they’re gonna get it inspected. They’re gonna find out if what you’re saying is true about the house. But strangely, the one thing that’s the most important thing? Our spirituality, people don’t question or scrutinize anything. And so that song “You Might Be Wrong” was my testimony, because I believe in a higher power, but I just don’t know who it is. I think of myself as an evangelical agnostic, I guess. I believe in something, but I just don’t know what the identity of it is. So because of that I just look for God in my children’s eyes and look for God in my wife’s eyes. I look for God in my backyard when I look at a tree, you know? But the other thing that kind of turned me away from all of that – not just denominations but just religion in general – is that it’s gotten to where it’s all about money. It’s all about money. I compare it to a group of people selling different brands of laundry detergent. They all say their detergent gets your clothes whiter and they want you to buy their brand. But it’s all just detergent, you know? And that’s just where I’m at right now. You know, I’m in the Bible Belt, so (this) doesn’t sit well with everybody. But you know, if a Christian gets angry at me, it’s probably because they’re scared.  

Michael: That’s a good point. Fear is a great motivator, too.

Paul: You know what, that’s the whole thing. That’s the other thing that’s pushed me away from religion. Why would I want to be affiliated with something that’s … fear and intimidation? That’s the same thing a pimp does to a prostitute. They make ’em live in fear. Why do I want to pray to somebody I’m afraid of? ’Cause the God I believe in … I ain’t afraid of. We’re friends, you know? Whatever, whoever this being may be.

Michael: I’ve never quite understood the fear concept. I just don’t understand why love isn’t … good enough.

Paul: Well, because fear is a tool that they use to make you do what they want you to do. It’s that simple. You know, all my life I was dangled over hell. Every time I went to church, I didn’t leave feeling worthy. I left feeling unworthy. And they want you to feel that way. They want you to keep submissive to whatever they want. And I just can’t be part of that anymore.

Michael: I see you did the artwork for “What The Hell Is Goin’ On?” There’s some intricate work in that.

Paul: Yeah, that’s a piece I did. It’s real tongue in cheek. I drew a picture of me and Christ sitting in a kiddie pool up in heaven surrounded by beautiful girls. And down below it shows people burning in hell. And I always say that those are people that, while they were on earth, they did not buy any Paul Thorn products. So I have fun with it. The things that they do and say seriously, I do it as a joke. Because to me, it is a joke. The thought (that) if I stole a pencil in the third grade, I’m gonna burn in fire for eternity. I mean, really? Because nobody’s all good and nobody’s all bad. Everybody I’ve met or spent any time around, you’re gonna find things about ’em that you think are good qualities and they’re gonna have some bad qualities, too. So let’s cut each other some slack and not beat each other up so much. But don’t go around saying we’re unworthy. We’re not better than anybody else, but we all have worth. And that’s one of the things I want to get across in my music.

Michael: You ever heard of a preacher named Will Campbell?

Paul: No.

Michael: He’s a southern preacher. He worked with civil rights and Martin Luther King in the ’60s. He has a quote, “We’re all bastards, but God loves us anyway.”

Paul: Yeah, that’s the way I look at it. Some of my stances? Like I say, I’m in the Bible belt and they, in their mind, they possess the absolute truth. You can’t really even have a conversation with people who think that. I don’t have the absolute truth. I certainly don’t know the absolute truth. That’s for sure.

Michael: That’s the first sign of wisdom, though. Knowing you don’t have the truth.

Paul: Well, you’re gonna have to die to find out what’s on the other side of life, I’m afraid. That’s how it is.

Michael: Your paintings on the CD covers, how long do those take? That’s a lot of work.

Paul: If I really work hard, I can do a piece in about a month. Because it’s not a matter of just drawing the picture. You have to think about what goes in every spot. Just like a song where every line needs to tie together. Everything in a visual thing needs to tie together, too. So I spend a lot of time just staring at the paper figuring out what I’m gonna put on there next, you know?

Michael: Are you influenced by Howard Finster?

Paul: You’re not gonna believe this. Howard Finster was a friend of mine and he sang at my wedding.  

Michael: Sitting here on my desk is a copy of “The Night Howard Finster Got Saved,” the CD. Have you heard that?

Paul: I’ve got it.

Michael: Beautiful. It’s an acquired taste, but it’s beautiful.

Paul: Oh, I could listen to that over and over and over. You know, clearly he was not a good singer. Clearly he was not a good player. But there’s such a spirit in what he did that it sounds beautiful anyway.  

Michael: Yeah, it’s a vibe.

Paul: Yeah, you know that song “Talking Bird”?

Michael: Yeah.

Paul: When I married my wife … I started calling her “Talking Bird.” Actually, on the inside of her wedding ring, it says “Talking Bird.”  

Michael: I did not know there was a connection with you and Howard Finster. That’s awesome.

Paul: Yeah, he was a big influence on me. Not that I have the same views that he had, but I do have a view of the world and that’s the thing I liked about Howard. He put his view of the world into his art and that’s kind of what I do with mine, even though my views are different. He inspired me to illustrate my philosophy in life, you know? The other artist that influenced me a lot was Robert Crumb. You know, everybody’s influenced by something and nobody has done anything new. You might think you’ve done something new, but you haven’t. Somebody’s already done it before you showed up. But I try to carry on the tradition, you know? Like all my pictures and my songs, they have dark and light in ’em at the same time.  

Michael: That’s real life … So I understand your dad is a minister and your uncle was a pimp? Am I getting that right?

Paul: That’s correct, yeah.

Michael: What happened there? That’s kind of like the country song “Born and Raised In Black and White.”

Paul: My uncle, when he got out of Vietnam, he went to San Francisco, back in the free love days, and to make a real long story short, he was a pimp. For 10 years, that’s all he did. He had a stable of women – sold their bodies and gave him the money. And looking back, it’s not something he’s proud of, but it is a stage of his life. So after he spent that time in San Francisco, he relocated back in Mississippi. And that’s when I met him. He’d quit being a pimp, but he still had that in him. And so he really schooled me on the dark side of life. It really was a nice counterbalance to what my father taught me about the church and all that kind of stuff. So I have a pretty good amount of coping skills when I go out into the world because of the mentorship I got from experts on both sides of the world. You know, the dark and the light.

Michael: They prepared you.

Paul: Yeah, they sure did. That’s right.  

Michael: If you were giving advice to someone getting into the music business right now, what would you tell them?

Paul: It depends on what their route is. If you’re gonna do what I’m doing, which is touring the country and building a fan base, you better have a good show that people will talk about after you leave and you better have some good songs that they remember and want to buy and put on their iPod. You know, things like “American Idol” and all that garbage, it’s all short-lived. It leads to … you might become a big household name, but chances of winning something like that are one in a million. But even if you do win, they’ll turn you into something that won’t be very memorable. It’ll just be, just like I said, what’s on current radio. Which is … not very much to it. And I don’t know, that’s a hard question to answer, man, ’cause there’s a whole lot of ways to go about it. It depends on what your goal is. But I guess I would say write your own material. That would be one thing that would really be important. You know, I did that cover album and I enjoy it, but to be honest, after the cover album, I’m gonna go back and write my own songs again. Today’s music is a tough one, man. ’Cause record companies are going out of business left and right. I’m sad to say this is the “American Idol” age. It’s all about becoming a star in 30 seconds, you know? I don’t think that’s a good way to do it, because you can’t develop your craft like that. They’ll throw you into a machine and they’ll make you an overnight success, but nine times out of 10, it won’t last. And then they’ll replace you with another one as soon as the excitement of you winning the contest dies down.

Michael: Yeah, I’m not an “American Idol” fan at all.

Paul: I’m working on a song for my next album, it’s called “Mediocrity Is King.” And that’s what it’s about. I mean, did the Kardashian sisters really do something that spectacular that they get their own show? I haven’t seen ’em do anything but whine, party, and just be selfish self-centered people. That’s kinda what I see.

Michael: That’s pretty indicative of society, isn’t it? Where did it all go wrong?

Paul: I don’t know, man. I just don’t know. Well, first of all, reality shows are not reality shows ’cause when a camera gets on somebody’s face, reality stops. You know, sometimes quality makes a breakthrough … I think that Adele record is a good record.

Michael: That’s a great record.

Paul: Yeah, it’s a great record. It’s a very simple record about heartache and those will always have a place if they’re done right, you know? She did it right and so I’m happy for her because she’s good and she has success. She deserves it. But people like her are so few and far between. It’s mostly just … I call it McMusic. Just like McDonald’s, but it’s McMusic. It’s just a little something you can eat along the way but ain’t worth a s–t. You know what I mean?

Michael: Yeah, I completely agree with you.

Paul: I mean, the sign at McDonald’s has “billions are served.” Yeah, they are. But what are they being served? Garbage.

Michael: It’s crap, yeah.

Michael: Well, here’s a philosophical question for you. And then I’ll leave you alone, I promise. I apologize for taking too much of your time.

Paul: It’s all right.

Michael: If you were giving advice to an 18-year-old Paul Thorn, what would you tell him?

Paul: I would tell him to quit goofing off so much and go to work. And quit being so damn lazy.

Michael: That’s good advice. Man, I’m looking forward to the gig in Bowling Green in October. Are you with a band or are you doing a solo thing?

Paul: It’s the band. It’s almost always the band now.  

Michael: Good. We’re looking forward to it. We’re glad you’re coming to Bowling Green.

Paul: Yes sir. Thank you for your time.  

About the author:  Michael Franklin is the Media & Reserves Specialist at WKU Library’s Visual & Performing Arts Library. Michael is also a professional musician and sound engineer.